"Nice Guys"--in fiction.

[konstantya]

(If you aren't familiar with the Nice Guy phenomenon, here are some articles to remedy that.)

I've recently been plowing my way through Frasier.  Frasier was one of those shows that, as an early teenager, if it happened to be on, I would watch it and enjoy it, but I never really went out of my way to catch it.  But lately I've grown tired of listening to music while I work, so I've instead started putting TV shows on as background noise--M*A*S*H, 3rd Rock From the Sun, and yes, Frasier (I'm hoping to work my way back to The Golden Girls, The Mary Tyler Moore Show, and maybe even Designing Women--if only for the retrolicious fashion and '80s entrepreneurialism).

Anyway, Frasier is one of those sitcoms I've grown to heartily enjoy.  It's smart, sarcastic, funny (the rare bits of physical comedy are some of the most hilarious I've ever seen), surprisingly (or perhaps unsurprisingly, as it's focused on a psychiatrist) intellectual, and at times, incredibly poignant.  No doubt this has to do with the relationships in the series (you know me and relationships), and just how very real and complex they are.  Truly, this show had some fantastic writers.  Last night, I actually stopped what I was doing to fully focus on one particular episode (8x19), because it was so wonderfully, tactfully, and realistically handled.

If you aren't familiar with the show, Niles Crane is the younger brother of the titular Frasier, and he is a fantastically adorkable beta male.  He's also a beautifully crafted Nice Guy--who, though he's been called out on it before when his behavior dipped into selfish and manipulative, really gets called out on it in this episode, where he simply doesn't understand how loving someone to the point of worshipping the ground she walks on could be a bad thing.  It made me squeal in delight, because this is a very real problem that is so rarely addressed, and for it to be addressed on a popular sitcom (even if it originally aired ten years ago) was even more delightful, and something I felt would be worth sharing:

Now, the whole reason Daphne had to gain weight in the first place was because Jane Leeves, her actress, got pregnant in real life.  The whole "Daphne gets fat" thing struck me as a bit random and a cop-out in the beginning (but hey, she was pregnant--there's really no good work-around for that, admittedly), but I was really impressed with how the writers managed to turn it into something more important and character-developing than just "Daphne suddenly got fat--but now she's better, so carry on!"  Have I mentioned the character development on this series is fantastic?

(I also feel the need to mention just how much I love the character of Roz Doyle.  She's strong, capable, and unapologetically sexual--even after she gets pregnant from one of her flings.  Actually, as much as I love Niles/Daphne, I buzz at the idea of Niles/Roz.  Sort of like how I like to imagine Cloud/Tifa in my head, but prefer to write Reno/Tifa.  There's more conflict and uncharted territory or something.)

Comments

[trekqueen.livejournal.com]

hubby was just watching some of Fraiser the other night. ^_^ I have watched it before when I have caught it on but like you said, never went out of the way. These days, the sitcom setup gets a bit on my nerves so I can't stand watching them for too long.

[konstantya.livejournal.com]

Honestly, the sitcom formula (the A plot/B plot, the obligatory laugh track, etc.) gets to me, too, which is the main reason I can't be bothered with most of them, particularly the new ones. It's more that there are all these shows (most of which just happened to be sitcoms) I remember liking as a kid, and I'm curious about how they'll view to me now, as an adult. (The only exception would probably be M*A*S*H, which I got into as an adult, due to a past boyfriend, but similarly never really went out of my way to watch.)

Also, it's easier to queue up one season of a show than to choose six or so movies that would take up the same amount of time. XP

[trekqueen.livejournal.com]

indeed, netflix is our friend! we've been adding lots of other shows but non-sitcoms. I think it is the line set up formula and laughtrack that get me the most. There's a process to delivering it and if you don't do it right then the audience doesn't quite "get it" sometimes. Growing up we were big into Family Matters, Fresh Prince, Saved By the Bell, etc... and later on That 70s Show.

I think that's why I love the Scrubs episode so much when they have a sitcom sequence on how it would be if they actually lived in a sitcom - it was quite telling how more light-hearted the sitcoms are and don't get too deep into the more serious topics, but if they do there's still some sort of amusement thrown in to keep it from being depressing.

[konstantya.livejournal.com]

Hah, the sitcom version of Scrubs. XD I'm actually not too familiar with the show, but I've caught enough episodes to appreciate the satire there. (I kind of wish I could get more into it, to be honest, because I've heard a lot of good things about it, but, well...hospital shows don't do a whole lot for me, I guess.)

You're definitely right about sitcoms being typically light-hearted--but, after all, "sitcom" is short for "situation comedy"; humor is sort of hard-wired into the equation from the get-go. That's probably why I've turned to them as an alternative to music--they're easy to digest, and even with the good ones, often listening to/occasionally looking at them is enough to get the meat and potatoes of the show. That was actually the main reason I had to give M*A*S*H a rest--the series starts out bizarrely sitcom-ish, but steadily becomes more of a true dramedy, and especially in the last few seasons, leans more toward drama than comedy. I found that, unless they were episodes I had already seen, I was paying too much attention to them.

[trekqueen.livejournal.com]

true that on the sitcom meaning hehe. A lot of folks have been trying to get me to watch The Big Bang Theory because of the geekery and Trek references but because of the typical sitcom-ness, I can't sit and watch it for long. I, too, have to pay more attention to it if I'm unfamiliar with the current episode. I still get people going WAH! when I say I don't watch it, as if it is some sort of blasphemy.

I've been meaning to get into M*A*S*H, I have a friend who loved the show and he's amused I work just around the corner from where the mountains are that the helicopter flies over in the beginning title sequence. I think of Scrubs in a way is like a dramady - it takes on serious subjects but has pithy dialogue that makes you laugh out loud without the need of the laughtrack to tell you it is an ok point to laugh (though, they do at times have the snappy music cue it if they cut scenes). Another good one is the musical episode (Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBZx1NRaqmM) and Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weqod8h5SWI) of the songs).

[konstantya.livejournal.com]

Ah, The Big Bang Theory. Similar to your situation, I feel it's one of those things I should be into, but somehow can't make myself actually sit down and watch. (Luckily, I'm not met with disbelief over this fact--though I still get the KILL THE INFIDEL reaction when I tell people I never saw what was so great about Friends.)

M*A*S*H is one of those series that, while hardly perfect, is really worth seeing, in my opinion. I'd hazard to say seasons 3-8 are probably the strongest. The first few seasons put more of an emphasis on wacky hijinks (season one in particular is all over the place, as you can tell the show is really trying to find its footing), and the later seasons take on a moralistic tone that is often considered overwrought and anvilicious, but overall, there's an awful lot of good to be found in the show--particularly if you keep in mind the time it was made in. I think, watching it in this day and age, it's really easy to overlook just how revolutionary and daring it was in a lot of ways. (Like, originally the producers wanted to forgo the laugh track altogether, but the American networks did their "but we NEED laugh tracks" schtick until they finally caved and said, "Okay, fine--but not in the OR scenes." Some of the more dramatic episodes managed to omit it completely.)[/sales pitch]

On that note, I seem to remember that Scrubs itself was pretty revolutionary in its decision to not have a laugh track. Which is kind of funny and pathetic at the same time, as this was almost 30 years after M*A*S*H tried the same thing. 2001 and the networks were still worried that viewers might not know when something is funny. *eye roll* And yes, I think you're right--Scrubs always struck me as a definitive dramedy, the way it was written and set up. (And LOL. The musical episode. I'll admit that ever since you mentioned the series, I've had "Guy Love" in my head. XD)

[trekqueen.livejournal.com]

I hardly watched Friends, if at all. About as much as I know is something of a song to do with Smelly Cat and Phoebe carrying her brother's baby. So I get that look too as I don't care much about it. :D

Heh, good to know they actually didn't want the laughing at all in M*A*S*H, that's a plus in my book. I guess the networks just don't know how to do witty. *shrug* I noticed that with some British shows, they lay on the sarcasm or wit thick so you have to be quick to pick up on it sometimes.

Guy Love IS TEH BESTEST! I had an icon for a while with Turk and JD looking at each other lovingly with the tag "Guy Love" on it. :D

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[meganinhiding.livejournal.com]

I loved Frazier and Niles was indeed my favorite though it was one of those shows where I enjoyed everyone in the cast. Among other things loved the Crane brothers interaction with their dad. They were a nicely functional family albeit a snarky one.

Now that I think about Roz's pregnancy I never felt like we were supposed to judge though I think Frazier wanted the father to take responsibility.

[konstantya.livejournal.com]

Oh, I completely agree. The relationships between the Crane men were really something special and close. And you can definitely see where Frasier and Niles get their sense of humor. XD

I always saw it not so much that he wanted the father to take responsibility exactly, but more that he felt the father had a right to know, and a right to be involved in the child's life if he so chose. Which I always attributed to Frasier's own experience as a father, and perhaps even his longing to be closer to his own son. But you're right--I never got the feeling we were supposed to judge Roz. Even Martin, whose ideals were a bit more old-fashioned in that he felt she should now find a husband and settle down, never said something to the effect of, "Well, this is what you get for slutting around." It was refreshing, to say the least.

[licoricealsorts.livejournal.com]

I've never been much of a TV watcher, but I've always loved Frasier. I starting typing '... and Niles has always been my favourite character...' but it's the ensemble acting, and the ensemble relationships, I love. Every character is rounded, loveable, exasperating, and real.

My favourite episode is the one where Frasier tries to recreate the glory days of radio with a 'mystery theatre'. I weep tears of laughter every time.

[konstantya.livejournal.com]

Haha, Niles was admittedly my favorite at first, too, but every character really comes into their own, and now, I think I'd have a hard time picking a favorite. Like you said, everyone's loveable, but everyone's genuinely flawed and real.

And oh, that episode. XD How Gil's character keeps coming back, and how Niles kills everyone off out of spite. I'm LOLing just thinking about it.

[licoricealsorts.livejournal.com]

'Romping with my friends in the hedgerows and spinneys..." LOL.